Beyond the Edge - Interview with Sue Knight
The Introduction:
In this informal interview I sit down with Sue Knight, who used her NLP tools and lived experience to get herself through the brutal North Cape ride and to meet an edge every single day — yes, every day — rather than just one big moment of drama.
I loved hearing how that practice of noticing patterns, choosing congruently (including catching a bus to the famous globe rather than battling ridiculous winds), and being willing to follow as well as lead reshaped how she shows up in life and training. We laugh about the highs — belly laughs in freezing campsites and surprise pizza gifts from kind strangers — and we get real about the lows, the moments she cracked on camera and what she learned from being vulnerable.
Sue explains how the ride strengthened her faith in humankind (trail angels galore), shifted the way she runs experiential NLP courses, and even informed a new trainer-apprentice approach she’s building. We also geek out on AI a bit — how it can mirror our language patterns, give comical “bloody” feedback and teach us about prompt craft — while remembering the human skills needed to work with it.
Expect playful stories, practical takeaways about edges and congruence, and some sharp insights on teaching presence and modelling excellence.
Details:
We got a bit philosophical mid-chat — in the best way. Sue and I riff on edges: where we pull back, why we apologise or qualify ourselves, and how a challenge like the North Cape illuminates those invisible fences.
She offers practical pointers: notice where you hold back, choose the company of people who model excellence, and experiment with being more congruent. There’s also hard-earned honesty about the costs — Sue admits the ride pushed her physically and that she’s reviewing what she does going forward, including whether she’ll book that India trip or tweak future rides for kinder conditions.
The conversation ends on an upswing: concrete changes Sue’s making (apprenticeships, deeper trainer training, integrating modelling practice across programmes), plus small delights — the surprise pizza, the trail angels, and the communal laughter.
We leave listeners with an invitation to examine their own edges, to pick better company, and to choose congruence over dutiful completion. It’s warm, witty and, frankly, a perfect reminder that big adventures teach the small daily choices that actually make us happy.
Chapters:
- 00:23 - Navigating Challenges in 2026
- 01:26 - Taking on the North Cape 4000
- 25:05 - From Journey to Course: Designing a New Combination Program
- 35:03 - Taking Stock: Travel, Health, and Future Plans
- 39:22 - Chiropractic Insight: Fascia, Patterns, and Hidden Causes of Pain
Takeaways:
- I learned that pushing my edges every single day taught me resilience and resourcefulness, surprising me often.
- We discovered that following someone else's careful, procedural plan can be a skill worth training, not weakness.
- I chose congruence over peer-pressure near the finish — took the bus to the globe, and felt brilliant about it.
- We witnessed astonishing kindness on remote roads: strangers fixed bikes, offered tea and pizza, restoring my faith in people.
- I realised showing vulnerability on the ride made my training feel more authentic; participants connected with my messy moments.
- We affirmed experiential learning beats lectures — doing exercises in the room helps patterns pop out and stick.
- I started playing with AI as a cheeky language partner, using it to study patterns, get feedback and joke around.
- I'm re-evaluating future plans: more congruence, smarter condition management, maybe solo rides, camping experiments and looking after my body.
Contact Details for Sue:
My mission is to support leaders in business to make a positive difference to the world in which we work and live. My Values I believe that congruently living out our values creates the culture that we want in business and in the world today. The values that I challenge myself to live and that I promote in my clients are the values of trust, continuous learning, innovation, fun, ownership, honesty, openness, integrity, support, challenge, commitment, courage, freedom and love.
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Heather Masters
Copyright 2026 Heather Masters
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Choosing Happy Podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Heather Masters, your host, and this week I get to interview Sue Knight, who is a master trainer of NLP and also the author of NLP at Work.
Speaker A:I love what she does because she really lives nlp.
Speaker A:She lives learning from the experience.
Speaker A: ome across some challenges in: Speaker A:And in this episode, we div deep into how she used her NLP resources and her life experience to overcome them.
Speaker A:So stay tuned for this week's Choosing Happy Podcast.
Speaker A:Hello, Sue.
Speaker A:Wonderful to see you again.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And you have been on quite a journey, really recently.
Speaker B:I've been on a long journey.
Speaker B:I have indeed.
Speaker A:Can you tell me a little bit about what you've done so that the audience are aware of the amazing challenge you took on and what other three main learnings?
Speaker B:Oh, my God, three.
Speaker B:The learnings are still unfolding.
Speaker B: what's called the North Cape: Speaker B: We did the: Speaker B: a friend of mine, Alison, the: Speaker B:It's the most northerly point of Europe.
Speaker B:It's the north of Norway, which we did in August.
Speaker B:We didn't cycle every single bit.
Speaker B:We did have to jump a few bits, but we did cycle a lot of it.
Speaker B:And we finished towards the end of August.
Speaker B:So I've been back a few weeks.
Speaker B:I've run a program since.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And it was the result of a challenge in a way, but indirectly from one of my groups who I said influenced me to do something that's scary and real stretch.
Speaker B:They didn't quite get this program, but I kind of developed what they proposed to me.
Speaker B:And this looked very crazily, very appealing.
Speaker B:It was completely self supported.
Speaker B:You know, there's no backup truck, there's no pit stops.
Speaker B:They provide the route and you have to get yourself there, basically.
Speaker B:So that's what I've.
Speaker B:That's what I completed in August.
Speaker A:And what were the learnings?
Speaker B:The learnings are still unfolding all the time.
Speaker B:You know, I've resisted just categorising them, but I've been sharing my thoughts.
Speaker B:So they really are developing.
Speaker B:I mean, it was a big thing to do.
Speaker B:It was physically very challenging and mentally very challenging as well.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:There's so much learning because I was riding with somebody who was a physically stronger cyclist than myself, who's also very detailed in planning.
Speaker B:And I can be, but not in an Auditory way, and she's quite auditory and I would say procedural and small chunk, which is not my style.
Speaker B:So one of the things that.
Speaker B:But it was, you know, it was very valuable to have that, have that resource, but I really was in the role of a follower rather than a leader.
Speaker B:So my usual place, I mean, because I work independently, you know, I live independently, is I make my own decisions, I do what I choose to do.
Speaker B:So it's a very different role to be in, to be following somebody else in several respects, not just following on the bike.
Speaker B:And that was a big challenge for me and learning how to be in that role.
Speaker B:I realize I've learned a lot that I could.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of people invest in training leaders in business, but I think we need to train followers.
Speaker B:How do you follow someone when their style is not necessarily your own?
Speaker B:For example, it isn't quite the way you would wish things to be.
Speaker B:So that's been a big thought about that because I think there's a lot more followers than there are leaders and you don't get perfect leaders.
Speaker B:I've learnt, I learned a lot.
Speaker B:You know, I talked about this challenge before I did it as being going to the edge.
Speaker B:And I did a couple of conference sessions on our edges and I thought that enrolling in this was going to the edge.
Speaker B:What I hadn't appreciated was that was going to be an edge, at least one every single day.
Speaker B:It was a constant challenge.
Speaker B:I thought there were things that just didn't expect happened every single day.
Speaker B:And I thought at first, oh, it was the first day, you know, then it was the second day.
Speaker B:I thought, that's a coincidence.
Speaker B:The third day I thought, well, that's, gosh, that's a surprise.
Speaker B:You know, three times we had big things happen and then I realized, no, this is the norm, just not the expected.
Speaker B:And it tested my NLP skills and thinking a lot.
Speaker B:And I really did.
Speaker B:I posted videos on route and a couple of them where I cracked, basically.
Speaker B:And I just thought, I can't do this.
Speaker B:But I shared it online and that was a big learning to know where these edges were for me and how significant it is to experience those.
Speaker B:If you really want to learn what your resources are, you know, in a lot of, for example, nlp, there was a conference going on at the same time, which I'd been invited to talk to, but I said, I can't because I'm going to be doing this ride.
Speaker B:And it was interesting subsequently, watching some of the presenters and they're sitting in a comfortable chair Standing by a flip chart, drawing diagrams, telling stories.
Speaker B:And I thought, you know, you should come on a ride like this or something equivalent, because you'll know then, really.
Speaker B:And I'm sure they have their own ways of knowing.
Speaker B:But it was such a contrast for me, you know, the absolute whole physical challenge of it and finding out what I was capable of, where I came to an edge for myself, so.
Speaker B:But there's so many more learnings, just, you know, stuff about how Alice and I maintained our relationship with each other, because you can imagine that would be very testing how we handled moments when we both were really tired, you know, and pissed off about things, all sorts of things like that.
Speaker A:So talking about the edge people, because you went through every day, did you notice a strategy or.
Speaker B:What you're talking about is, if it's one thing, one approach, I went through edges.
Speaker B:So there were different things, you know, there were.
Speaker A:But was there an underlying strategy that maybe was common across them all?
Speaker B:They're quite unique strategies, I think.
Speaker B:Well, I suppose, underlying them all, although I doubted this at times that, you know, there's a way, there's a solution here.
Speaker B:Even though at times the solution for me was I just want to go home, I really did get to that point, The ultimate solution.
Speaker B:So I'm learning how to give and receive feedback.
Speaker B:You know, there were specific strategies for that and how to recognize when we needed to do that.
Speaker B:I think the most significant strategy for me came at the end of the ride, the very last.
Speaker B:The last 30km.
Speaker B:Take you to this globe structure which is on this promontory at the top of Norway.
Speaker B:All these.
Speaker B:Most riders have their photograph taken in front of this globe.
Speaker B:It's kind of very known and known in the endurance cycling world.
Speaker B:And I felt that there had been quite a few times when I was incongruent.
Speaker B:I was doing things that didn't fit for me, and I've thought a lot about that subsequently.
Speaker B:And when it got to this last phase and my partner in the cycling, she was committed to getting to this globe.
Speaker B:I don't think I was ever as committed as she was to be.
Speaker B:It wasn't as top of the list as it was for her, but she was determined I was going to get there too, which was great.
Speaker B:But the last bit is really quite.
Speaker B:It's a very difficult ride, and the conditions are usually very bad.
Speaker B:It can be very foggy.
Speaker B:It can be very, very strong side winds.
Speaker B:Sometimes the organizers did send out a message and say, don't do it today.
Speaker B:The winds are just too strong.
Speaker B:It's too dangerous.
Speaker B:One route takes you through a very long tunnel, which is apparently.
Speaker B:Many riders said it was horrific.
Speaker B:And I wasn't looking forward to this last bit, but it was the kind of culmination, in a way, of the whole ride.
Speaker B:But I realized I didn't want to do it.
Speaker B:I happy to get to the globe, you know, to find a way to get there.
Speaker B:I did not want to ride in these potential conditions.
Speaker B:And I thought, how do I tell Alison this?
Speaker B:I made the decision not to ride it.
Speaker B:I made the decision to get a bus there.
Speaker B:And that felt absolutely congruent for me.
Speaker B:Somebody said to me, oh, you know, well, so you decided to opt out of the ride at that point?
Speaker B:No, I didn't opt out.
Speaker B:I chose to do it my way.
Speaker B:I think there's a plumber maybe coming to say something to me.
Speaker B:No, no, he's having a look at something.
Speaker B:I chose to do it my way.
Speaker B:And I felt.
Speaker B:And I announced that I wasn't riding it, you know, so nobody thought I was, like, cheating or anything on me, because you're meant to ride the whole thing.
Speaker B:But we always knew we wouldn't necessarily ride every single bit of it.
Speaker B:But I felt that was the most congruent thing that I did, and it was to do something quite independently for myself.
Speaker B:And rather than feeling I know somebody else did the same and they felt disappointed, and I thought I didn't feel disappointed.
Speaker B:I felt good about making that decision.
Speaker B:For me,.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about choices and the choices that we make and that we always have a choice in the moment, and that's a perfect example of.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker A:And also there's that happiness port.
Speaker A:Were there times of joy as well?
Speaker B:We laughed a lot.
Speaker B:I think when you're at your extremes, it's like you either scream or you laugh.
Speaker B:And we did laugh, you know, like really belly laugh often, in a way.
Speaker B:I mean, I do laugh a lot in life, but not to the extent we did there.
Speaker B:You just saw the craziness of a situation or the extremeness of a situation.
Speaker B:And I also found that the more basic the situation was, you know, so, for example, we did occasionally stay in, like, a decent hotel, but sometimes we stayed at a campsite.
Speaker B:We never camped.
Speaker B:That was something we discussed beforehand.
Speaker B:We didn't camp, but we did stay in some very simple accommodation at times with communal.
Speaker B:It was like a.
Speaker B:It was a campsite.
Speaker B:There were people camping.
Speaker B:Everybody shared this sort of communal eating area.
Speaker B:And it was always.
Speaker B:It always felt like there was much more community spirit in those places.
Speaker B:Than there was staying in a hotel.
Speaker B:I think the less you have like they're carrying less, less baggage.
Speaker B:I think the more truthful you can, I'm not sure that's the right word truthful that you can be to yourself.
Speaker B:It's a huge learning to be self supporting and having to just take what you need with you and you know, and face physical challenges.
Speaker B:I experienced, you know, reactions in myself.
Speaker B:You know, for one thing, you're just constantly present.
Speaker B:There's so much to be aware of and to watch out for that things worrying about, you know, how's the garden doing and stuff and how's my vegetable plot and how's my, where's my car and is it going to be hailed on, you know, while it's parked.
Speaker B:Those things just don't come to mind because it's just so vital to be present to what's happening to myself and to the roads and what's happening with my friend as well.
Speaker B:So I think it's actually a great, you know, learning about humanity to go back to those sort of.
Speaker B:I mean they weren't totally basics the way some people experience obviously, but much more basic than I normally be living my life.
Speaker A:And you brought that to your last course.
Speaker A:How did that change?
Speaker B:Well, I didn't want to just talk about the trip.
Speaker B:I mean, I didn't want to just tell stories about it.
Speaker B:I mean that wouldn't be my training style anyway.
Speaker B:But people knew what I'd done and I gave them the opportunity as a modeling exercise size to model me so they could choose a moment.
Speaker B:So it was a practice in how they went about modeling something and it happened to be how I, you know, they chose certain moments that maybe I'd touched on in what I'd shared over time and they subsequently Alison who was riding with me, she couldn't be present on the group but she came online for an afternoon.
Speaker B:So having modelled me, they then modelled her and a different perspective, you know, like what was her perspective on things so they could do a compare and contrast.
Speaker B:So I joined it that way.
Speaker B:I asked people, this is people in the group who have trained with me before and who know me pretty well.
Speaker B:And I asked them was there a difference in me?
Speaker B:And certainly people had said when I was posting videos during the ride, I thought one of the interesting comments like I got from one of my close friends and she said I could really relate to you so much more because you're being vulnerable normally, you're in your field of expertise and you're confident, you know, you're in what you know, and you were sharing things when you were really vulnerable and not coping very well.
Speaker B:And she said, I felt really connected to you and I like that side of you.
Speaker B:I mean, not.
Speaker B:Not that she wanted me to be vulnerable all the time, but she really liked seeing that side of me.
Speaker B:And I got that kind of comment from quite a few people, which I thought was interesting.
Speaker B:And the people on the course said that I.
Speaker B:One was quite.
Speaker B:One feedback was that normally I'm picking up people's patterns on a program.
Speaker B:And he said, normally I'd have picked up things that they could change a lot.
Speaker B:He felt there was a much greater balance towards me picking up patterns of excellence in people.
Speaker B:It was quite shocking, really, because I thought, you know, I'd really prefer to be picking up patterns of excellence.
Speaker B:And I think I was less.
Speaker B:I was more.
Speaker B:In a sense, I do follow people's leads on my programs, but I think I was more in that role than typically.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:So I did take this whole following thing, you know, with my family, because my son and his wife are living with me in France at the moment.
Speaker B:And I recognized that when I got back, I was less interfering, less requesting, less controlling and letting things be.
Speaker B:So there was something of that following which mapped across, even though I hadn't fully liked that role and didn't immediately know how to be in it.
Speaker B:But it was interesting, the learning from that.
Speaker A:So did it change your experience of running the course as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I think it was much more.
Speaker B:I usually let things unfold.
Speaker B:I think I did that more so than I would typically do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I suspect, you know, having got that feedback, you know, on the ride, one of the really good things was experiencing the kindness of people.
Speaker B:People who do long rides, they talk about trail angels, the people who help you en route, and it's amazing the people who helped us en route and how they would just pop up when you needed somebody.
Speaker B:Quite astonishing and their generosity.
Speaker B:And so that was really key.
Speaker B:And I think that influenced me, you know, to see this goodness in people.
Speaker A:And on that.
Speaker A:And this is just reflecting to one of my limitations.
Speaker A:Did you find you had to ask people more for help than you possibly would, as you say, as an independent?
Speaker B:Yes and no.
Speaker B:I mean, sometimes the help just came, you know, without asking for it.
Speaker B:So, I mean, a very, I suppose, extreme example was I, because the roads in Sweden are endless.
Speaker B:You know, they could be 100k long with nothing.
Speaker B:I mean, absolute trees and tarmac and that's it.
Speaker B:Not even a post to Lean your bike against.
Speaker B:Not a shelter.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Absolutely no coffee stops or anything.
Speaker B:Nothing but trees.
Speaker B:And that's in.
Speaker B:You know, it changed as we got into Finland and Norway and I crashed.
Speaker B:I fell off the bike on one of the.
Speaker B:On one of these roads.
Speaker B:So there was nothing.
Speaker B:Occasional cars, and my chain had got mangled as well.
Speaker B:And the first thing was like, am I okay?
Speaker B:Am I intact?
Speaker B:So, you know, Alison said, just stay on the floor and just check how you are.
Speaker B:But while I was on the floor, two cars did go past and didn't stop, but then a car, a van did, went past and then stopped and backed up.
Speaker B:And the guy that came out of this car, just because we said, he said, are you okay?
Speaker B:I said, well, I think I'm okay, but my bike's not.
Speaker B:And we said, are you any good with bikes?
Speaker B:He went, yep.
Speaker B:And he immediately went into the van and got his gloves on, and he came out and fixed the bike.
Speaker B:And he waited till I got on it, till I tested it to see if it was okay.
Speaker B:And he just seemingly came out of nowhere, basically.
Speaker B:And, you know, another example, you get run out.
Speaker B:You can easily run out of fuel and drink and stuff, and we'd be desperate for coffee more than anything.
Speaker B:There's just nowhere to get coffee.
Speaker B:Nowhere, but not hardly anywhere.
Speaker B:And on the side of the road, at one point, there was a stall and it just said, north Cape Riders, help yourself and ask for tea and coffee.
Speaker B:And this lady had put stuff out on this stall on the road.
Speaker B:Bananas and sweets and biscuits.
Speaker B:And there was an urn and so on, just when we needed it, basically.
Speaker B:And she said that, you know, she said, people say, why do I do this?
Speaker B:And she said, I walk parts of the Camino every year, and people are so kind to me when I do that.
Speaker B:She said, I do that.
Speaker B:I tell my neighbours I do that because it restores my faith in humankind.
Speaker B:She said, this is my payback.
Speaker B:This is the way I pay back by doing the same here, things like that.
Speaker B:So sometimes we'd ask, but sometimes you didn't.
Speaker B:It just came.
Speaker B:Just appeared.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And has it restored your faith in humankind?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:You know, but I think.
Speaker B:I know there's times, you know, you hear some horror stories of people traveling, taking risks and going to dangerous places.
Speaker B:I think my son's just coming back, so you'll know I'm on the line.
Speaker B:I don't think I'd lost my faith in humankind, but I think it was very much strengthened by just how people are there, how willing they are to help.
Speaker B:Sometimes they just notice and they offer and how abundant that help is.
Speaker B:Yeah, yes.
Speaker B:It's quite amazing, I think when you're in that situation.
Speaker B:Like, you know, for example, we cycled up one very tough stretch and up this hill and there was a place at the top like a pizza coffee place.
Speaker B:And we just sat down and had a coffee and we must have looked exhausted.
Speaker B:And the owner of this place just came out and put two big pieces of pizza in front of us with no asking for money.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:It was just so generous of him.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And taking all of that, you're creating a new course, a combination course.
Speaker A:What got you to come to that decision and how is it going to be different?
Speaker B:Well, when I run the intensive programs in France and they've been this way for quite some time, I often have people who are new to nlp with people who come every year, for example, experienced people.
Speaker B:And that mix has worked very well.
Speaker B:You know, the experienced people, it's always going to be something new.
Speaker B:It's always going to be another layer for them.
Speaker B:It's always different.
Speaker B:And they learn also, by the way, they support people who are new just by being there and being examples of the learning.
Speaker B:And I draw on them as well.
Speaker B:So it's not just me imparting, they're imparting things too.
Speaker B:And I think I said in the latest newsletter, you know, sometimes people who are new to nlp, they see things that they experience, people started to take for granted.
Speaker B:And then the people who are experienced get to experience things from these new eyes and new reactions to what they're doing and what, you know, especially sometimes people use jargon, people don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker B:So that mix for me works very well.
Speaker B:And I often get, you know, you can't guarantee if somebody says, oh, I'm a masterpiece practitioner and they've trained somewhere else, it could mean anything.
Speaker B:You know, they might come along and they haven't got what I would, you know, say to be what I'd expect as master PRAC skills, You know, I say, have you done any modeling?
Speaker B:And they've done some like 5 minute modeling exercise or something.
Speaker B:Everybody's in that position.
Speaker B:And so trying to define people or categorize them and train them by defined levels, really, you know, it's such a blurry thing.
Speaker B:So people are going to be doing different things.
Speaker B:There will be people who are experiencing NLP as a training for the first time.
Speaker B:There'll be people who experienced it before, but are now continuing a Modeling project or starting a modeling project, which is the evidence for a master practitioner.
Speaker B:And there's people on a training or an apprenticeship streak who are coming to model how I make decisions about the design and how I handle the program.
Speaker B:I mean, they're going to do the review of that separate to the main thing, but that's what they're going to be there studying as well as participating.
Speaker B:So they're going to be exploring how did I decide to do that exercise with the group then, for example, and how did I handle somebody who asked that kind of question, how did I make these decisions?
Speaker B:So they're getting the chance to kind of a little bit step back and pay attention to the process.
Speaker A:I mean, your training is unique, I would say, in the world of nlp.
Speaker A:From the perspective of the experiential.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The strength of presence, not just from you, but from everyone in the room.
Speaker A:It's kind of required as part of your training and that building and strengthening of awareness as well because of that.
Speaker B:Absolutely, yes.
Speaker B:It's interesting, you know, watching other presenters and there's probably very few who do it as experientially, I think, as I do it.
Speaker B:And yet, you know, I say the definition of NLP is a study of experience.
Speaker B:It's a study of the structure of subjective experience.
Speaker B:And interestingly enough, a couple of the people from my program in France just a few weeks ago, they've been experimenting with doing things experientially and just realize what a difference that makes that people learn from their own experiences, that they have fun doing that, you know, that they're not just hearing an academic sort of explanation of stuff and practicing afterwards.
Speaker B:They're starting.
Speaker B:And the value of that is I get to know where people are at the beginning.
Speaker B:You know, they do something and I find out what level that they're at because of that.
Speaker B:It's just, I think it's the simplest way.
Speaker B:But it's interesting how that simplest way, I think, is a challenge when people are very used to formal, more academic presentations.
Speaker A:I also sense, just from looking at training in general, especially around digital training and training online, that it's the experiential nature now that people want to do because there's so much AI, there's so much information out there.
Speaker A:They don't just want to watch videos anymore, they want to experience something.
Speaker B:And I do say use AI.
Speaker B:So if we're doing the modeling project, for example, that kind of makes sense.
Speaker B:I have people in India who are not necessarily, necessarily all used to writing out Projects, you know, in English.
Speaker B:So it's like, use AI, but what I want to know is what prompts they've given it, so how have they used it, when have they used AI, what part of it?
Speaker B:So I think it can accelerate people's learning and there's ways of, you know, just integrating it into.
Speaker B:And I say sometimes, well, you know, take this topic now, go and ask AI what it tells you about it.
Speaker B:You know, come back.
Speaker B:Last time I said, ask AI to design an exercise to teach this thing with different groups and see what it came back with, which was fascinating.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've been spending a lot of time over the last two, three weeks looking at how it's rolled out into enterprise and looking at the research on that.
Speaker A:And there is 95% failure in AI implementation and 70% of that is around culture and how humans interact with AI, because there's very little training around thinking and planning and treating it as.
Speaker A:It's not another piece of software.
Speaker A:It's something that interacts with you.
Speaker A:So it's quite fascinating that that isn't taught as part of AI training.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yes,.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's fundamental.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I've shared a lot of my dialogue with AI online and I've said it's a tremendous way of studying language patterns.
Speaker B:For example, I've challenged AI on the language patterns it's used, and it challenges me back and then have this fascinating dialogue.
Speaker B:It calls it the dance.
Speaker B:I loved it at one point and said, look, you know, I'm machinery, I know I'm machinery, but isn't this fun?
Speaker B:Wow, that's just amazing.
Speaker B:And to be able to give something like machinery feedback and not to get a defensive reaction or a justification, it just, it's quite.
Speaker B:You get an example of something that can receive feedback and act on it and give it.
Speaker B:Oh, it's just.
Speaker B:I think it's the experiencing it, the interacting with it, not the ask this question or ask that question or, you know, search for information.
Speaker B:For me, it's the experience of interacting has been remarkable.
Speaker B:So,.
Speaker A:Yeah, setting it up, especially when you're aware of one.
Speaker A:I am aware of my own negative patterns and setting it up, so it challenges me.
Speaker A:One of them is, as you know, resisting sales.
Speaker A:And I was having an interaction and expanding on what I wanted to put in this email.
Speaker A:And in the end it just turned.
Speaker A:Just send the bloody email.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:Mine said, there you are, you're going to get this photograph by the bloody globe.
Speaker B:And I said, what do you mean the bloody Globe.
Speaker B:Well, I thought that was part of, you know, your culture.
Speaker B:I must have said bloody somewhere.
Speaker B:And then I kept overdoing the bloody, you know, and the bloody.
Speaker B:I said, look, there's a bit too many bloodies here.
Speaker B:Said, sorry, bloody is going on probation now.
Speaker B:Justified.
Speaker B:But to have that kind of entertaining.
Speaker B:And it's the humor, you know, it's modelling what I do, you know, and I use a lot of humor in my training and I get this humor back at me, which is very amusing.
Speaker B:Fascinating.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:And I'm aware of all the risks and all the concerns about AI as well.
Speaker B:So it's an interesting time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm looking at it from the positive aspect of.
Speaker A:It's requiring more from us, especially around NLP and understanding, critical thinking, awareness of testing, you know, the tote.
Speaker A:What you put in is what you get out, what patterns, as you say, it's reflecting back to you all of that.
Speaker B:My work can still go rogue.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Oh,.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Then that was the next point was.
Speaker A:And recognizing that now we're in agentic, which means that when we make a request, it will actually try and go away and carry it out, rather than just give us an idea of what it thinks it should do.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And to be.
Speaker B:Aware.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:So there are many dimensions to this that, who knows, will happen.
Speaker A:And for you, going forward, have you made any major decisions because of your travels, because of.
Speaker A:Of the shifts and the learnings?
Speaker B:I'm kind of reviewing all the decisions that I make.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I'm reviewing normally.
Speaker B:I'd have booked to be in India by now.
Speaker B:I'd have booked it.
Speaker B:I haven't booked it yet.
Speaker B:I probably will go to India, but I'm kind of reviewing what is congruent for me.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think I'm probably more in that rather than just do things because I've done them before.
Speaker B:I'm taking stock.
Speaker B:Basically.
Speaker B:I came back from that writing and I'm never going to do that again.
Speaker B:I would never do that again.
Speaker B:That particular thing, that was really hard, particularly because of the nature of the roads in Scotland, Scandinavia, you know, it's really mentally hard as well as physically hard.
Speaker B:And I've had some physical problems since coming back as well.
Speaker B:So I've probably accelerated a few issues like with my knee and my hip, which were there, but I've certainly pushed it.
Speaker B:So depends what happens with that.
Speaker B:I would want to do another ride, but I'd like to manage the conditions differently, you know, So I probably do it solo.
Speaker B:I would like to Explore camping, maybe not all the time.
Speaker B:I would like to have much more flexible times for it so I'm not having to meet a target each day.
Speaker B:Basically we had to, we felt we had to meet a target.
Speaker B:So I'd like to manage the conditions to find, you know, I discovered who sue was in that very, those very challenging conditions and I'd like to find out how sue is when I'm managing the conditions, what happens then?
Speaker A:Yeah,.
Speaker B:But again that depends on, you know, my physical status as well.
Speaker A:And in the next few months, is there anything that you've, you've sort of thought about and thought, yeah, I want to implement that now.
Speaker A:I want to take that learning and bring it about now.
Speaker B:Oh, I am, I think in everything that I'm doing, like this intensive that's coming up and it's a part of a bigger trainer training and people have asked me and it was on my mind to be apprentices.
Speaker B:I've had apprentices in the past and coincidentally there's always been two people at the same time being apprenticed for a couple of years and coincidentally two people asked me at more or less the same time could they effectively be an apprentice.
Speaker B:So two to give people the opportunity to learn over time.
Speaker B:They've always had that.
Speaker B:A lot of people come back, return to programs, but to make that so, this program in October, like I've got trainers coming to model what happens.
Speaker B:But then there's going to be a core like trainer training, facilitator program subsequently where they really concentrate then on the skills and what makes a difference and then they have the opportunity to join me on online programs or in person programmes to put that learning into practice.
Speaker B:So to make things more kind of extensive, you know, rather than in separate blocks.
Speaker B:I mean the choice to put blocks together has been in the delegates hands in a way.
Speaker B:But to make it more explicit that I think the learning over time is really what makes a difference.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:The layers, the ability to see patterns at a deeper level.
Speaker B:Absolutely,.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just posted an article as well because I've been to a chiropractor here just in this last week and it was fascinating to talking to him.
Speaker B:I did write something about it, put a post about it that he studied, working with the fascia and because that's, I mean, I can't describe it exactly but you know, but am I.
Speaker B:When he spoke to me because I'd been to a doctor in France and I'd had a problem with my hip and I had a problem with my knee and this doctor Said, well, they're probably separate things.
Speaker B:I thought, no, they're not.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:And this chiropractor here said, totally connected.
Speaker B:And it's connected to the injury you had in your wrist years ago.
Speaker B:And you get pain in your shoulder, which.
Speaker B:Yes, I do sometimes when I'm riding or have done.
Speaker B:He goes, these are all connected.
Speaker B:And the knee is where these symptoms show themselves.
Speaker B:But actually, you know, it's coming from somewhere else.
Speaker B:And he worked with these other aspects.
Speaker B:And when I left there, I mean, I'd limped walking there, and when I left there, there was a car coming, but I ran across the road quickly to get out of the way.
Speaker B:I thought, bloody hell, did I just do that?
Speaker B:But when I talked to him about what prompted him to learn, having learned all the chiropractic, understand chiropractor things, what prompted him to learn this particular work with the fascia.
Speaker B:And he said he heard about it and then he witnessed somebody and it fascinated him.
Speaker B:And he discovered, as he learned more and more about it, he could look at somebody.
Speaker B:And he said the patterns popped out at him about what was going on.
Speaker B:I thought, that's what I do.
Speaker B:But I do it with humans.
Speaker B:He's doing it with physical.
Speaker B:And I thought.
Speaker B:And he said, she just pops out.
Speaker B:I thought, yeah, that's what all these NLP skills give me, this ability to.
Speaker B:Patterns pop out.
Speaker B:And I go, there's the issue.
Speaker B:And it won't be what somebody thinks it is.
Speaker B:And that's what I aim to teach people.
Speaker B:But I've never put it quite like that.
Speaker B:I've never expressed it quite as specifically as that.
Speaker A:Yeah,.
Speaker B:Rather than, let's go through a process, you know, let's do the, you know, like some of the tests I've had so far.
Speaker B:Let's do a blood test, let's do X ray, let's do a thing.
Speaker B:But he could just go, here, this is what we need, and this is what we need to know.
Speaker B:And here's where it's happening.
Speaker B:I think, whoa.
Speaker B:And it resonated completely.
Speaker B:It fitted.
Speaker B:I was recognizing him, what I do, but in a different context.
Speaker A:And that's why your training is very magical, because we.
Speaker A:We witness you doing that and wonder, how can we do it?
Speaker B:Well, that's what I want to make sure people get, you know, And I think that now that I've become so much more conscious about that, because somebody else said that to me, said, that's what.
Speaker B:That's why we wonder, how the hell did you spot that?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And I think yeah, that's what I want you to get.
Speaker B:This is what I'm teaching.
Speaker B:Well, now it's very focused in my mind that that's.
Speaker B:How do I impart that?
Speaker A:Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Is there anything you want to finish off with?
Speaker A:Anything that you want to leave the listeners with?
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:Well, I've certainly been in that business of exploring edges.
Speaker B:And people's edges are very different things.
Speaker B:You know, it's like what you think.
Speaker B:Think you might be afraid of, for example, is one thing.
Speaker B:Where do you stop yourself?
Speaker B:You know, where's the area that you go just back off from?
Speaker B:That's an edge.
Speaker B:And I think most people have areas where they just hold back from being fully who they are.
Speaker B:And to allow yourself to become aware of those edges or to get back from feedback from others, I was like, yeah, that's.
Speaker B:I gave that feedback to somebody just recently, you know, that they'd wanted to improve their influence and communication.
Speaker B:And I thought they keep apologizing for what they're saying and qualifying what they're saying.
Speaker B:And their edge is to just be confidently and certainly themselves.
Speaker B:And they had never quite seen it that way and dropped the.
Speaker B:They thought they were being respectful.
Speaker B:I said, no, just a waste of time, really.
Speaker B:What are you doing?
Speaker B:Didn't quite say that to them, but I thought of Frank Faraday, you know, source of provocative therapy, who had studied for years.
Speaker B:I never heard him like qualify what he was saying or apologize or say.
Speaker B:Is that okay for you?
Speaker B:He just let it stand, let it be and see what people do with it.
Speaker B:So he came to mind and I would say, choose the company of people who are excellent, who are your models of excellence.
Speaker B:Choose their company as much as you can.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Six degrees of separation.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:What's the other one?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:You are the sum of the five people you spend most time with.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I've never heard those numbers in quite that way before, but I'm not quite such a numbers person really.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:I'm trying to remember the quotes.
Speaker B:Tells me about your patterns.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:I've never.
Speaker B:Have you never thought about that?
Speaker B:You asked me for three learnings, six labours of separation, five people you spend time with.
Speaker A:Those are quotes.
Speaker A:Those are quotes from.
Speaker B:Even so, they're quotes that you've remembered and used.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker A:No, I'd never noticed that.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You might notice the numbers you use in the rest of today.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Well, thank you, Sue.
Speaker A:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Thank you very much for asking me.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:For taking the time to listen to this week's episode.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed it or think it would be valuable to others, please do share.
Speaker A:And if you really enjoyed it, please leave me a review.
Speaker A:It really helps the podcast.
Speaker A:All of the links are in the show notes and I look forward to seeing you next week on the Choosing Happy Podcast.
Speaker A:Sam.
